HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - Steering Committee - 10/13/2015STEERING COMMITTEE 13 OCTOBER 2015
The South Burlington Steering Commi ee held a mee ng on Tuesday, 13 October 2015, at 6:30 p.m., in the
Library of the Tu le Middle School, 500 Dorset Street.
MEMBERS PRESENT: City Council: P. Nowak, H. Riehle, C. Shaw, T. Chi enden, M. Emery; K. Dorn, City
Manager; School Board: E. Fitzgerald, Steering Commi ee Chair; J. Bea y, D. Fleming, P. Leduc; D. Young,
Superintendent of Schools
ALSO PRESENT: T. Hubbard, Deputy City Manager; J. Stewart, School District; I. Blanchard, Project Manager; B.
Nowak, A. Klugo, other members of the public
1. Agenda Review: Addi ons, dele ons or changes in the order of Agenda items:
No changes were made to the Agenda.
2. Approval of the 8 July 2015 Steering Commi ee Minutes:
The minutes were then accepted as presented.
3. Master Planning & Visioning Discussion:
Supt. Young noted that the Master Planning Task Force had presented two op ons with regard to school
configura on. The School Board had then charged him with making a decision. What he had come up with
was a single elementary school and upgrades to the High School.
At the last School Board mee ng, addi onal informa on was given to the School Board regarding individual
schools (budgets, staffing, Act 46 cost containment ramifica ons, etc.). Superintendent Young said it is his
belief that there is a need to do something. Although South Burlington provides an excellent educa on for its
children, there is an opportunity to benefit students in a more consolidated way.
Ms. Emery asked what Supt. Young thought of the 2 op ons presented by the Task Force. Supt. Young said
both had merit, but he felt the number of transi ons was an issue as was equity. He noted that neighborhood
schools in the city are much different than when they were established. In addi on, City Center plans to put
ques on marks around the Marco (Central) School.
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Supt. Young said there is a need for addi onal financial forecas ng for the single school model, and it may be
that the single school model is be er in that regard. That financial analysis is going on now and will require
going to an outside consultant.
Ms. Fitzgerald noted that the Board received informa on regarding future spending and the implica ons to the
tax rate and to maintaining current programs. Those concerns would be the baseline for a discussion of other
op ons. That baseline includes things such as stewardship (including ADA requirements), salaries, benefits,
etc. Supt. Young said he feels good about a 2-year forecast window; beyond that, there are unknowns such as
State funding. Ms. Fitzgerald stressed the need to preserve the quality of what is there now and to introduce
improvements. Supt. Young added there is also a desire to bring back some things, such as World Languages in
the elementary school and visual and performing arts ac vi es.
Ms. Emery asked about a community survey. Supt. Young said that is an important component, but having too
many op ons means a poten al lack of clarity. He felt more clarity is needed before they go to the public.
Ms. Nowak noted that 70% of the city’s residents don’t have children in the schools. Their most asked ques on
is “What’s it going to cost us?” It has been very effec ve to show what each home or condo will be paying.
That same informa on is needed for a decision on school op ons. Ms. Nowak cited the number of seniors in
the city who live in more limited circumstances. She said she understood the number of challenges but also
noted that the Council was elected to make sound and appropriate decisions for the taxpayers. She said she
would have liked to see more come out of the Task Force in the way of a conclusion. It seems now that it may
be another year before things happen.
Ms. Nowak stressed that the city’s me-line is different from that of the schools. The city doesn’t have the
ability to wait for years. There has to be some ac on on the city’s part, and there may be some city ac ons that
are not in line with the schools. The city needs to answer the needs of others (e.g., the Library). If there is not
private funding for City Center, the city will not get the public spaces that the residents want.
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Supt. Young said that cost modeling in educa on is very difficult. There has to be due diligence, which, he
stressed, is not stalling. Ms. Riehle said she understood “due diligence,” but felt it is disappoin ng that there
are different me lines for the city and schools.
Ms. Emery cited the need for “give and take” and said the city is pu ng a proposal on the table which can
address the need to bring more affordable housing, and thus more families, to the city.
Mr. Dorn then distributed a proposal from the city dated 12 August, which was wri en at the request of the
City Council. It concerns proper es owned by the city and by the school district. The city’s offer involves an
exchange of those proper es, which is very consistent with the model Superintendent Young has proposed.
Mr. Dorn then reviewed the proposal which includes the following:
a. An exchange of Central School/Chamberlin School/Orchard School proper es for land owned by the
city (Oak Creek School site). The city’s land, which has previously been thought not to large enough
for a school, could be increased by neighboring property owners who have agreed to have that
discussion. Mr. Dorn noted the Central School property is important to the city for site control over
an area of City Center, which will drive City Center development. Mr. Dorn added that the city’s
vision for City Center has been consistent since 1985.
b. The city would not develop the Oak Creek School Site, but there would be public input. There
would be a Master Plan for the City Center property, and the city would sell the property for
development. Mr. Dorn added that the city is not in a superior posi on to deal with the property
“post school.”
c. The school district would be out of the posi on of having to deal with that land and would receive
the proceeds from its sale. This would allow the school district to focus on construc on of
school/schools. The Oak Creek site would be given to the School District at no cost to the taxpayers
d. The city also has an interest in the Chamberlin and Orchard School sites. There is a need for indoor
recrea onal facili es. Both buildings could be repurposed into community centers for a er school
ac vi es, ac vi es for seniors, pre-school, etc. Mr. Dorn stressed that the public would have
significant input into the repurposing
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of those schools. This process would also eliminate the need for a “third party” and an RFP process.
Mr. Dorn then read the complete proposal outline. He noted that the school district would have the ability to
set the date for the leaving of the exis ng facili es. He also stressed that this is a great me for development
for both private and public developers (i.e., low interest rates).
Mr. Dorn said the city’s interest in a new Library is immediate, and there are other infrastructure needs as well.
Mr. Shaw said that in talking with people, he has heard that the status quo seems acceptable to many, but if
you add up the intangibles (equity, 21st century learning efficiencies, etc.) it is a different discussion.
Mr. Lalonde said the School Board has to be sure there is a solid basis to make a change, and it has to be
supported. He felt they are not at a point where they are sure Central School should be sold. They recognize
the benefits of consolida ng elementary schools, and they are open to trying to resolve that issue. They would
like informa on from the city as to how City Center development will benefit the taxpayers and thus offset the
cost of a new school. Mr. Lalonde said he liked the concept of the city dealing with the master planning. He
also added that part of the Central School discussion is how much the school district can get for it.
Mr. Dorn said one op on the school district has is to go to the highest bidder; however, the city’s plan is a full
infrastructure piece of property, significantly more valuable than it is today.
Mr. Chi enden said he is surprised that a er so much study the School Board is s ll pondering whether Central
School should be a school. Mr. Lalonde said the concern is that if they sell the school, and people are then
paying more in taxes, will they vote down school budgets and necessitate the cu ng of programs. Then there
is also the issue of ge ng more money for the needs of the High School.
Ms. Fitzgerald said that when they look at where there is the most need in the elementary schools, it is at
Chamberlin School. She cited equity and Airport concerns as significant. There
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is also the fact that the school district would have to repay debt owed to the state which would diminish any
money received from the sale of the school(s). She added that she can see the value of consolida on, but
there has to be a compelling proposal to take to the public. Mr. Lalonde added that he didn’t feel the public
would support the Task Force recommenda on as it is.
Mr. Shaw said the School Board has to keep in mind that City Center is a big priority for the voters as well. He
said the School Board can help devise a vision for City Center that would be something other than “UMall
East.” Mr. Lalonde said he supports City Center, but noted that only recently has Central School become a
linchpin for City Center. Ms. Fitzgerald said it seems that Central School is now the “cri cal component” of City
Center.
Ms. Nowak said a former City Council member has told her that 20 years ago there was a ques on as to
whether Central School should con nue to be funded. She said she is “galled” by the use of the word
“linchpin.” She felt the city’s plan is a win-win which takes the burden off the School Board as to what will
happen to the property if it is sold. She understood the need to flush things out, but again stressed the
different me lines of the city and school district.
Ms. Nowak then asked if the ming is right, and if there is enough land, whether the Oak Creek site is good for
the School District. If it is not, the School District should be fair to the city and let the city make other plans for
that property.
Ms. Emery asked if the Oak Creek site would be an opportunity to solve issues at Chamberlin. Mr. Lalonde said
he just feels the offer is premature as they haven’t decided yet to sell Central School. He noted that the school
itself is on 11+ acres, but the parking lot and other land is rarely used. He asked if the city could use those 3
acres.
Mr. Shaw said the city wants a municipal presence in City Center, especially a Library and a Town Green. He
then asked Mr. Dorn if there is a difference in TIF revenues 2 years out and 3 years out. Mr. Dorn said there is.
He added that in an ideal world City Center would be built out in 2017 when “the clock starts cking.” There
has to be a buildout within 20 years of that, and there is a 5-year window in which to incur debt. He added that
there is a loss of TIF revenue for every year that goes by.
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Ms. Riehle said she can’t underes mate the need to work together. The more clarity there is, the more things
can happen in a more controlled way.
Ms. Nowak again stressed that if the Oak Creek site isn’t a place the school district ever wants a school, the city
needs to know that. The city has to look at this asset and determine whether it can hold onto it for a number
of years.
Mr. Lalonde said if the size issue can be dealt with, it would seem to him to be a good loca on.
Members of the public were then invited to comment.
Ques on: Does the land swap require a vote.
Mr. Dorn: Probably. The city will get a legal opinion on that.
Ques on: Would Central School become “anchor stores”; if not, would the city use other
parts of City Center?
Mr. Dorn: The city doesn’t own the rest of the City Center property and cannot require a master plan;
Central School is the only property the city owns.
Ques on: If Central School property is not as much of a revenue generator, what is the rush?
Mr. Dorn: It s mulates other land owners to get going. Other than Trader Joe’s, Pier One and a small
residen al development, most of City Center is undeveloped. It would also allow the city to do
infrastructure and to get housing (the city gets revenue from housing as well). Mr. Klugo added
that for every year that goes by, the city is losing revenue in year 20, and that’s where the real
revenue is.
Resident: If City Center hasn’t happened in 20 years, she has a problem with the land swap. She felt the
city’s ming is very op mis c as building a school is a 3-5 year project.
Resident: One or two op ons isn’t enough. She felt the city should develop the other side of Dorset Street
as the UMall side of the street is “a dump.”
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Resident: Closing Central School is “tearing our hearts out.” It might be the right thing, but people need to
understand that. Reasons are needed for giving up schools.
Ms. Nowak: Stressed that these are not opposite sides. With or without Central School, the city will move
ahead with the TIF and City Center. She expressed concern that people feel there hasn’t been an
opportunity to par cipate and cited the number of open mee ngs, and said the phone lines are
always open.
Ques on: Could the TIF be voted on and there s ll not be a new Library?
Mr. Dorn: The City Council would go to the voters for funding for a Library as they would for all City Center
projects (stormwater, Market Street, etc.).
4. Legisla ve Needs:
Supt. Young said the school district is s ll paying on debt for work done on the school and there is a ques on of
debt forgiveness for some of the ini a ves that are being pursued. Mr. Lalonde said he thought there would be
some sort of tax incen ves for consolida on, part of which could buy debt forgiveness.
Mr. Dorn said the city is looking for vehicles for shared services with neighboring communi es,
which is being done with success in central Vermont. There is also a Council of Governments
which would allow a regional commi ee to get together on services and get an economy of scale and improved
quality of services.
Mr. Dorn also noted that the City A orney has just returned from a legal forum, and one major issue was on
the legaliza on of marijuana. He came back with data on the “unintended consequences” which could result in
some significant changes in Vermont. He is very concerned that if Vermont sets up the same system as in
Colorado, Vermont will have to deal with transac ons all done in cash (because banks will not allow cash to go
through), and the poten al loss of warehouse space and single family homes which would become “growing
facili es.”
Mr. Stewart then explained some of the ramifica ons of Act 46, including:
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1. Legisla on keeps spending increases state-wide at 2% from the Educa on Fund. (Mr. Stewart noted
that the increase es mate for medical insurance is 7%)
2. The allowable rate for South Burlington is 1.7%, about $604,000 over the prior year
This means the allowable for all other costs is $360,000.
3. This number will change based on the number of equalized pupils in the district.
4. If the budget exceeds the allowable increase, the tax is doubled on the amount above the
threshold.
5. Debt service payments from the prior year are excluded from this limit.
6. Other Items to come before the Commi ee:
Supt. Young directed a en on to the Voter Informa on Overview handout.
Mr. Hubbard noted that the city and school budgets must be received by 16 January 2016. He suggested the
next Steering Commi ee be on 20 January for the presenta on of those budgets.
This will be confirmed in the coming week.
As there was no further business to come before the Steering Commi ee, Ms. Emery moved to adjourn. Ms.
Riehle seconded. Mo on passed unanimously, and the mee ng was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
_________________________________
Clerk