HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - City Charter Committee - 12/14/2022CITY CHARTER COMMITTEE 14 DECEMBER 2022
The South Burlington City Charter Committee held a meeting on Wednesday, 14 December
2022, at 4:00 p.m., in Conference Room 201, City Hall, 180 Market Street.
MEMBERS PRESENT: P. Taylor, Chair; Dr. T. Childs, A. Lalonde, C. P. Engels, D. Kinville, C.
Hafter, C. Higgins
ALSO PRESENT: J. Baker, City Manager, C. McNeil, City Attorney; H. Riehle, E. Fitzgerald, A.
Henry, M. Emery
1. Welcome and Introductions:
Mr. Taylor welcomed members and guests.
2. Agenda Review
Mr. Taylor asked to add to other business a discussion on the next meeting date.
3. Comments & Questions from the public not related to the Agenda:
No issues were raised.
4. Approve Minutes from the 9 November 2022 meeting:
It was noted that on p. 3, paragraph 4, Dr. Chilld should read Dr. Childs. It was also noted that
in the last paragraph on p. 2, Ms. Alaire should read Mr. Alaire.
Ms. Kinville moved to approve the Minutes of 9 November 2022 as amended. Mr. Hafter
seconded. Motion passed with all present voting in favor.
5. Discussion of the Council Chair role with Council Chair Helen Riehle:
Ms. Riehle said she would be opposed to having a mayor as it becomes too political and adds
another layer of administrative work. She would support adding 2 more members to the City
Council. She was comfortable with the City Council and with help from city committees to craft
the city’s policy.
Ms. Riehle said she did not choose to be “in charge” or to push particular agendas but rather to
be a manager instead of “running things.” She felt it was more helpful to get to consensus. She
acknowledged that not every issue results in a 5-0 vote. She also stressed the importance of
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The public hearing from all Council members as to how they will vote on an issue and why.
Mr. Hafter asked whether having 7 members would enable having subcommittees. Ms. Riehle
said it would, but she didn’t want to have everything done in subcommittees.
Regarding wards or districts, Ms. Riehle said she had mixed feelings. She acknowledged that it
could be seen as unfortunate that Ms. Emery is the only Council members who doesn’t live in
the Southeast Quadrant, and she appreciated Ms. Emery’s understanding of Airport issues;
however, she didn’t thing that Ms. Emery was blind to issues in other areas of the city. She felt
it was better to have people who are interested rather than beating the bushes to find
someone who has both the time and interest.
Mr. Engels said he felt it would be easier to find people willing to serve if they didn’t have the
pressure and expense of a city-wide campaign.
Mr. Taylor asked how many hours Ms. Riehle puts into the job of Chair. Ms. Riehle said possibly
10 hours a week. She was glad she did not have a full-time job in addition to her role as Chair,
but she noted she is the only Council person who is retired.
Ms. Riehle also agreed that the expense of running for the Council seats is a challenge, but she
felt that running city-wide, just as State Legislators do, makes you look more broadly at issues.
Mr. Hafter said the challenge is that as the city gets bigger, a Council can’t get to know
everyone.
Ms. Emery acknowledged that running for the Council has become more expensive in recent
years and she’s had to “up the game.” She now raises over $5000, has a website, social media,
etc., and has people who help her. She said she tries to go to different neighborhoods every
time she runs. One issue is not being able to get into apartment buildings to speak with
residents. Mr. Taylor asked if Ms. Emery would be open to having wards or districts. Ms.
Emery said she was open to seeing the benefit, but she didn’t think the city had been ill-served
by having at large voting. She stressed that the need to be equitable throughout the city hasn’t
fallen on deaf ears.
Dr. Childs asked why there are not Councilors who “look like me.” Ms. Emery said it takes
gumption.
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Ms. Lalonde said it sounds like what Ms. Riehle does is a lot like a Policy Mayor. She asked if
Ms. Riehle gets a lot of constituent calls. Ms. Riehle said she gets lot of emails. Sometimes
those emails go to the entire Council. She didn’t feel it was overwhelming and said if she
doesn’t know the answer to a particular question, she asks Ms. Baker or someone with that
knowledge.
Ms. Riehle noted that it is often the “same faces” who attend Council meetings, and there are
not usually a lot of people attending unless it is a big issue.
Mr. Engels said he is a “Helen Riehle fan” as he favors “bottom up democracy.”
Mr. Hafter said one benefit of having a City Council Chair is that the term is only one year, and if
the person elected doesn’t do a good job, he or she won’t be re-elected.
Mr. Kinville said she has heard it said that a mayor would be the “face of the city.” Ms. Riehle
said she has served in that capacity (e.g., at ribbon cutting ceremonies). She also said that
Kevin Dorn and Jessie Baker have been excellent spokespersons for the city. She was not
certain that an extra layer of government would deliver any more service than the public now
receives. Ms. Emery agreed and felt the city was not yet at the tipping point for a mayor.
Regarding subcommittees, Ms. Emery said she didn’t imagine spending more time than she
does now. Mr. Engels said he didn’t think subcommittees would happen and noted it does not
happen on the 7-member Planning Commission. Ms. Riehle noted that all Council members
now serve as liaisons to all city committees, more than one per member. With 7 Council
members, this chore would be more distributed.
Mr. Hafter asked about the possibility of 5 districts and 2 at large Council members. Ms. Riehle
urged not to make it too complicated.
6. Discussion of School Board composition:
Ms. Baker said she had watched the School Board discussion on this topic and felt there was
some misunderstanding as to what the Charter Committee is looking for. She stressed that the
Committee is not yet making decisions; they are looking for models to present to the
community for feedback. She also noted it was very intentional to have School Board
representatives on this committee. Mr. Taylor added that there could be different models for
the City Council and the School Board.
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Dr. Childs said the School Board needs to discuss this at its next meeting (4 January), and it
would need full Board approval. Mr. Taylor said if they get consensus, fine; if not, the
Committee would like to hear the pros and cons. Mr. Taylor also noted receipt of a letter from
Ms. Fitzgerald and other former School Board members. Ms. Fitzgerald said they didn’t want
the conversation shut down and were willing to distribute the letter. She noted that the letter
recommends 7 School Board members. Subcommittees are a regular feature of the School
Board. They also looked at the complexities of State interfacing on local and broader issues. A
7-member board could spread that work around. Ms. Fitzgerald said that re-districting would
be a very different discussion.
Mr. Taylor asked if it is expensive to run for the School Board. Ms. Fitzgerald said it is not.
Ms. Lalonde asked if a larger board would result in more work. Ms. Fitzgerald said under the
current operating model, subcommittees work with school personnel, then come to the full
board. Mr. Henry said he didn’t think it would add more work but could result in getting more
of the work done. Under the present system, there now have to be 2 people on each
subcommittee.
Mr. Henry also noted that there are now 2 people who are recused from voting on the next
contract, so the contract will be voted on by only 3 members. He also felt there is a good pool
of capable people to serve.
Mr. Taylor said that 7 members could provide more flexibility to communicate for both boards.
He added that after the School Board discussion, members are welcome to come to the City
Charter Committee meeting. He stressed that all ideas are welcome and the Committee’s
intent is to get ideas to the public. He also said that if the School Board wishes, one or more
Charter Committees members could attend the School Board meeting. Dr. Childs said that
would be a good idea and suggested 7:25 as a good time.
7. Outline Pros and Cons of different models to present to the community:
Mr. Taylor read from some of his thoughts as to how to look at this. Ms. Lalonde suggested
adding to the list the difficulty of finding people to run for offices and the confusion of voting
logistics for the public. Ms. Kinville said change is always confusing and suggested sticking with
legislative boundaries.
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Ms. Baker said if the intention is to go to 7 or more in order to have subcommittees, it would
have a staff impact and also more dollars.
Ms. Emery said that when thinking about wards, diversity is a “pro.” She also noted there could
be less competition with people running unopposed. Mr. Hafter stressed that with very
complex issues, it is good to have one or two voices that have information.
Mr. Hafter suggested a spread sheet with pros and cons for each item.
Mr. Taylor asked members to email him with any other points they wish included as the next
meeting will focus on pros and cons.
Ms. Baker said she would be happy to put together a spread sheet after the holidays.
8. Update on Council Climate Charter Change Discussion:
Ms. Emery reported that the vote in the Council failed. The concern was putting it on the ballot
before a public hearing. One member also wanted a policy in place before it went to the public.
9. Next meeting:
Due to schedule conflicts, members agreed to hold the next City Charter Committee meeting on
26 January from 4-6 p.m.
10. Other business:
No other business was presented.
As there was no further business to come before the Committee, Ms. Kinville moved to
adjourn. Mr. Hafter seconded. Motion passed unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 5:36
p.m.