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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - City Council - 10/11/1982PLANNING COMMISSION - CITY COUNCIL JOINT MEETING OCTOBER 11, 1982 ADDITION At the top of page 3, before the second full paragraph, the following should be inserted: "Mr. Mona proposed that all major and other developments, plus anticipated increases in thru traffic, be ranked according to estimated traffic contribution so that they all add up to 100%. The City Council, using an estimate of costs for full road improvement, would then establish a proportion to be paid for the road improvements by each contributor." The South Burlington Planning Commission and City Council held a joint meeting on Monday, October 11, 1982 at 7:30 pm in the Conference Room, City Hall, 575 Dorset St. Members Present City Council - Paul Farrar, Chairman; Michael Flaherty, William Burgess, Hugh Marvin Planning Commission - Sidney Poger, Chairman; Kirk Woolery, George Mona, Robert Walsh, John Belter, Mary-Barbara Maher Members Absent City Council - Leona Lansing Planning Commission - Peter Jacob Others Present David Spitz, Planner; William Szymanski, City Manager; David Minnich, Assistant City Manager; Albert Audette, Highway Department; Ruth Poger and Judy Hurd, The Other Paper; Roger Dickinson, Gail Simons, David Kaufman, Doug Schner, Edwin Granai, Lowell Krassner Discussion of Dorset Street improvements Mr. Spitz noted that approval for the Corporate Circle project on Dorset St. had been given. Now there is an application by V.L. Properties for a project roughly the size of 100 Dorset St. before the Planning Commission, and there have been preliminary discussions about expansion of the University Mall area. With these developments in mind, it seemed like a good idea to have a study of Dorset Street done. Joseph Oppenlander is working on such a study now, looking on what the road can handle and whether improvements can be made such that the road can handle developments as proposed. Another question which needs an answer is if the improvements can be made, when will they be done and by whom? The developers will certainly have to pay a share of the cost, but the City Council's involvement is being sought because there have been city plans in the past to widen Dorset Street, and the city is a possible party to contribute toward improvement of the road. Mr. Spitz said the Commission wanted to explore the Council's road priorities. He added that in the Mitel case, improvements to the Kennedy Drive/Hinesburg Road intersection had been needed and the city had agreed to pay for part of those improvements. If any such plan is to be followed on Dorset St., the Council will have to be the final arbiter of any cost sharing. Mr. Spitz said the study was to be done by November 1 and that the V. L. Properties application would be taken up November 9. Mr. Woolery came in at this time. Mr. Farrar asked the scope of the study and was told it would cover Dorset St. from the Williston Road intersection to the Kennedy Drive intersection, and would include the impacts of the possible north-bound on-ramp at Kennedy Drive, and the Corporate Circle road connecting Dorset St. and Hinesburg Road. Mr. Poger asked the Council's position on Dorset St. improvements and was told that, although the Council had not looked at its priority list since the tax issue which failed in May, at that time the road had been one of the two highest priorities and there was no reason to assume that it had changed. Mr. Poger asked how the Council would pay for improvements and Mr. Farrar replied that he personally felt the road would have to be put near the top of the list this year, even if some other things did not get done. Mr. Walsh felt the city needed a plan agreed to by the Council and Commission so the city and the developers could jointly get Dorset St. widened. He felt things were at a crucial point now and that the Commission needed an answer to whether the city was willing to make a commitment to work with the developers so development could continue. Without such a commitment, he felt, the Commission was in limbo as to what is reasonable to approve. Mr. Burgess did not feel the Council could make a commitment - they cannot spend money in that fashion without a bond issue. Mr. Poger pointed to the Mitel commitment and was told that that was a fraction of the cost involved here - that amount was handled within the regular city budget. The project was also separable physically. Mr. Farrar felt that even if an equitable formula were found in this case it would be difficult if not impossible to do the improvements within the normal budget. He said a plan could be worked out, but that its implementation would be uncertain because voter approval might be needed. Representatives of the three large developments mentioned were asked their timetables for construction. Mr. Roger Dickinson, representing V.L. Properties, said his client wanted to build immediately upon receiving approval. He would like to complete the work within 1-2 construction seasons. He explained the project for the Council. It is estimated that it will create about 490 new trips during the peak p.m. hour. Because of linked trips, in which someone already on the road will stop in, they estimate there will be fewer than 490 new cars on the road during that peak, but there will be that many new turning movements. Mr. Walsh noted that Saturday morning had also been added to the study, since that is a busy time on Dorset St. Mr. Farrar asked if there were any other large parcels of undeveloped land on the road and was told there was one and traffic from its development was being treated as normal growth. He felt that parcel's impact on traffic should be known. Mr. Granai of University Mall said they would like to break ground on the intermediate expansion of the mall with a new building for Martin's at the southwest corner of the property. He hoped to do this in the spring. The existing Martin's building will remain until it is later hooked to the existing Zayre building, at which point it and the Hilson building will come down. Until then, it will be leased. It is 24,000 sq. ft. in size, and the new building will be 48,000 sq. ft. Existing square footage in the mall is 300,000 and the final expansion will have about 463,000 sq. ft. For the final expansion, the mall would like a major department store and 30-33 additional small mall stores. Mr. Granai felt the final stage was close enough so that it should be discussed in meetings such as this. Mrs. Maher noted that it was possible that the square footage on Dorset Street would double in the next decade. Mr. Flaherty felt the city should know the impact of this development on intersections other than the ones mentioned, so the problem did not just move up the street one block. Mr. Marvin asked why other studies had not been used, instead of having a new one done. He felt it was well known that there should be 4 lanes on Dorset St. and he noted that no one had said anything about the impact on Kennedy Drive. Mr. Poger replied that other studies were outdated and that the Commission had not had the money or the time to do a larger study. Mr. Schner, of Corporate Circle, said that as permits were developed for the project, a cap was put on the gross leasable area. The total square footage could be as much as 650,000, but based on the new zoning requirements 500,000 sq. ft. is a more realistic figure. During the peak traffic hours, that could generate about 2500 cars entering and exiting. The current traffic on the road now, he thought, was about 3300. When Corporate Way is put through to Hinesburg Road, however, traffic at certain other areas of the city will decline by about 45-48%. Mr. Marvin asked the right of way width of Dorset St. and was told it was 66', which is not enough for 5 lanes if the lanes are 12' wide and there are sidewalks on both sides. The Commission felt there should be sidewalks on both sides. Mr. Marvin noted that the telephone company was planning to put in some underground lines on Dorset St. and he felt the lines should go right on the right of way, not 2' inside it. Mr. Schner said his best estimate for development was that by the end of 1983, they would have 1 or 2 buildings constructed. He said that the developer was willing to pay his fair share to solve the traffic problems on Dorset St., but that he could not absorb the entire cost of upgrading the street and still make the project economically feasible. He felt that for the city to maintain the 50-50 balance of residential and non-residential use that it wants, there had to be some give-and-take here. Mr. Poger felt Mr. Schner had a point. Mr. Marvin asked what would happen if the road were not improved and Messrs. Granai and Schner agreed that they would not be able to develop to their full potential. Mr. Poger added that the development which would send traffic below level of service C would not be allowed to go in by the Commission. Mr. Krassner felt services in the city had declined over the past 5 years, but Mr. Farrar pointed out that the total tax burden of the house as a percentage of income for people in the city had declined over the past 10 years. Mr. Burgess wondered about the potential tax revenues from these developments and a quick estimate was done. Mr. Marvin felt the Commission and the developers should come to the Council with a suggested program. The Commission felt that without a city commitment, development could not proceed. Mr. Burgess felt that without a bond issue, the Council could not make a commitment. Mr. Schner felt there were ways to get the improvements made, but that a master plan for them was needed, so costs could be attached. Mr. Farrar felt it was important for the Council to see the results of the study, since that would tell them what work needed to be done. He suggested that the Council attend the Commission meeting on November 9, when the study would be discussed. Mr. Granai noted that in order for the mall to attract a good department store, it had to be able to offer them a good price for the space. Including city road improvement costs in the price jeopardizes what the mall is trying to do, he said. Mr. Schner felt that Dorset Street had become more than a destination street. He felt it was almost an arterial highway now, serving the south end of the city. He did not feel the burden of improvements should fall only on developers right on Dorset St., because he felt it was a city-wide problem. The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 pm. 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