HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - Bicycle & Pedestrian Committee - 02/10/2021
South Burlington Bike & Pedestrian Committee
Approved Meeting Minutes
Wednesday, February 10, 2020 @ 5:30 p.m.
Meeting was held virtually
Committee Attendees: Shawn Goddard (Chair), Cathy Frank (Vice-Chair), Nic Anderson (Clerk), Bob Britt,
Eric Silverman, Dana Farr, Donna Leban, Amanda Holland, Havaleh Gagne
Other Attendees: Ashley Parker (City Liaison), Justin Rabidoux (City DPW), Eric Alling (Stantec). Many
members of public.
1. Welcome and clarification of meeting procedures
a. Shawn introduced committee members. Handed presentation over to Ashley.
2. Public forum/input on Dorset St shared-use path - Public (5:30 p.m. - 60min)
a. Ashley and Shawn presented (Presentation (with green border) from Packet). Noted
many links within slides that can help people to get to more details.
b. Eric Alling from Stantec presented (presentation (orange) from packet). Likely 2023
Construction.
c. Laura Demaroney – Live on Dorset at intersection of Cider Mill. Concern and missing
from Conceptual is south bound left turn lane which was required as part of Phase 1 of
Cider Mill. Road will be completely refigured. Not addressed in plans.
d. Justin Rabidoux – DPW. Can grab whatever DRB has approved and give to Stantec so he
can include that into these plans.
e. Laura noted it was Plat SB18-28.
f. Randy Kay – Question about ROW in front of Cider Mill. Asked if plans for rec path on
Cider Mill Drive connecting over to Dorset once it would be completed. Is there going to
be a connection. There is frequently traffic there.
g. Justin – Noted that this could be voiced to the Bike Ped Committee to add this project to
a future gap project.
h. Linda Demaroney – Rec path does not have to be access to commercial buildings. This is
a rec path. There is a path already that connects to Dorset Farms and through.
i. Kim Chittenden – Live next to Cider Mill. Really dangerous to get to Mill. Project is a lot
bigger than just access to the Mill. Really important project that addresses safety issues.
Thanked committee
j. Christina Griffin – There are sections of path that parallel and this 0.7m section seems
very expensive. Followed chat on Front Porch Forum. Creemees are only available for 14
weeks. Could a path connection be made. Asked if Dorset Heights was every conceived
for a connection of the path network. Much quieter and safer. About 22 homes will
benefit. Detailed locations. There may be more pressing needs of bike paths including
commuters on Spear St.
k. Justin – Would not be having this discussion of we didn’t have 80% funded by the State
already. Sees this as a continuation of the built infrastructure. Need to connect south
and east which is where the growth is happening. Noted impact fees are based on new
development which creates new demands. Only through these funding sources we can
do it. Becoming expensive to build but little will be borne by city tax base. Direction
connections are important. This is a project that will benefit the larger community.
l. Noah Hyman – Live off Dorset St. Asked if safety signage has been factored into price.
Asked about construction traffic impacts during construction.
m. Eric – Signs etc. factored into price. There will be times when traffic may go down to one
lane. Will work with contractor to come up with the appropriate levels of impact during
construction.
n. Rick Hubbard – Recreation paths are for a lot more than recreating. When we drive, we
use the most direct path. When we bike we shouldn’t have to go out of our way to bike
direct to work. Dorset street is not designed to be safe. Need to have facilities to make
that. This is the only gap in Dorset St. One of the big missing links. Important getting
people to their destinations quickly but also safely.
o. Comment in Chat from Kris Stepenuck: “Agree with Rick. Bike commuting on the most
direct route is preferable.”
p. Barb Sirvis – Long distance walker. Supports what is proposed. Spend more time talking
about bikes than pedestrians. Would like to have educational campaign to help bikes
not impact pedestrians. Would like to hear education about that.
q. Shawn noted we call them shared use paths now and education is on our minds.
Everyone has responsibilities to share. Will be working on more.
r. Brock and Jennifer Lyman – On Sadie Lane. Dorset Street speedway. See the value and
safety. Concern of loss of privacy screening they have. Does it get lost during
construction.
s. Eric – Will be approached directly during Right of Way phase. Will have individual
discussions with the property owners. If trees removed within area then they will be
replaced.
t. Justin – We will meet with each property owner. Some may want trees removed and
others may want screening. Ashley will follow up individually.
u. Randy Bunders asked how long it would take to finish once started.
v. Answer in Chat from Justin: “Hi Randy - probably in the area of 6-8 weeks. It will depend
a bit on how a contractor proposes to build it, are they slow and have an extra crew or
two to throw at it? Do they have some ideas that would help it go faster in terms of
traffic control, etc. We won't know 100% until we have a signed contractor on board
and an approved schedule.”
w. Steve Demaroney – Noted dimensions of street and active ditch. Doesn’t think we can
fit all this stuff into the ROW. Linda asked if people would buy the land?
x. Justin – Depends on the taking. There is a national standard that governs this process.
Degree of impact is assessed. We have appraisers which advise on value of impact.
Come to agreement with each landowner.
y. Steve – Could be put on the other side of the road. All future growth would be on the
other side of the road.
z. Justin – All the properties and the path are on that side of the road. Another path could
happen if other houses happen then.
aa. Linda – All the safety issues have not been addressed and questions about how this will
go in if there are a lot of assumptions.
bb. Justin – We will discuss with all property owners and ensure safety and rights of the
owners.
cc. Kay Frances Schepp – Supports project. Many charity runs etc. use this area and it will
help. Asked if they will be expected to remove anything as part of project. Thanked
committee. Will be good for school children to not have to go on back paths.
dd. Kelley Scarmeas – Thanked committee and support. One of the properties that does not
have access to a path. Very dangerous the way it is and supports even if there are some
safety concerns of crossing the path. There is a large number of children and dogs in
that area. Not just for recreation but dogs and bikes.
ee. Kris Stepenuck – On opposite corner of Old Cross Rd there is the property that has the
Christmas light display which could have an impact. Could look at having grass pavers
etc. in that area to reduce maintenance needs of replacing grass every year. Comment
in chat from Kris which reiterated: “Not sure this is possible financially, but just a
suggestion based on current homeowner actions, which is that you might consider using
grassed pavers between Dorset and the path at the corner of Old Cross Rd. (to
accommodate cars parking there in December to see the holiday lights and to prevent
erosion). I also offer my thanks to the committee and support for the project, and I look
forward to future projects on Spear St and Hinesburg as well.”
ff. John and Kristin Calcagni – Live on Link. Support proposal. Dorset is unsafe. People are
on the street right now and aren’t taking the other paths. This is needed. Appreciate all
the work.
gg. Christina Griffin – Was the connection of the existing path sections ever an option given
that the infrastructure is there?
hh. Justin - there are many people who feel it is important. This is an important link for
transportation too. This is the most direct route. People are using it anyway so why not
make it safe.
ii. Comment in Chat from Helen Riehle: “Thanks for your good work committee. I
appreciate the comments of all the neighbors and their participation in the process.”
jj. Laura - Agrees that connecting the existing paths makes the most sense. All commuters
use the road and never use the bike path. This is only serving those people that live right
there. Thanked Christina’s comments.
kk. Comment in Chat from Randy Bunders: “More people come to walk on the current path
then the people who live in the area”
ll. Comment in Chat from Kris Stepenuck: “I do both. (Bike on Dorset and use the rec
paths)”
mm. Comment in Chat from Amy S: “I run on the side of this road frequently and am grateful
that it will be safer. I would appreciate if it is asphalt versus concrete, for continuity of
surface type with the other paths.”
nn. Comment in Chat from Rich: “Thank you committee for your excellent work. This Dorset
Street section in this project is heavily used by walkers and bikers and it is very unsafe
for both.”
oo. Comment in Chat from Randy Bunders: “it is definitely a danger walking on the road
from Dorset St to the current path. I hold my breath when I walk on the rd to get to the
path”
pp. Comment in Chat from Kim Chittenden: “If you observed how many people use Dorset
Street on bikes, walking dogs, pushing baby carriages, and not getting creemies, but
exercise especially during COVID times on this unsafe road you would be surprised. This
plan is necessary. Thank you for all of your hard work.”
qq. John and Kristin Calcagni – Dorset Heights have no delineation at all. Would never send
my children to there with no markings or delineation. Critical connection needs to be
completed.
rr. Bill Slattery – Lives on Link Rd. No-one has spoken about older people connecting to
path. Strongly recommend and support.
ss. Matthew Garcia – Appreciate work on project. Lives there. Critical for us with children
and pets. It’s a quality of life issue also. Working from home more, the opportunity to
walk to store etc. is a work life balance. Could be additional economic benefits from this.
tt. Comment in Chat from D Ehler-Vock – “agreeing with Christina and speaker- there is an
alternative. Need to see connector between Oak Creek/Butler off Hinesburg Road to the
sidewalk towards Kennedy Dr. Lots of people on shoulder of road and narrow section
crossing over the interstate. Thank you for everyone's interest.”
uu. Kelley Scarmeas – Mill is a high use place that people want to get to one way or another.
To have a link but no path would be a bad idea.
vv. Christina – Asked if this committee works with developers so that there are not gaps.
Developers who benefit should be involved to have skin in the game.
ww. Justin – There are good examples where developers have built paths. This is only a small
link and no one development would cover the length. The impact fees paid by
developers are being applied to this (alongside the grant and penny for paths fees).
Developers did help pay for this with their impact fees.
xx. Shawn – Vice Chair Cathy Frank does attend DRB meetings. Have developers at our
meetings for input. We are involved in that. A lot of our development has resulted in
new infrastructure that serve other users. That is how SB ended up with so many gaps. A
lot of developments have built great systems but we have to connect them. This is what
the Penny for Paths was to do – close the gaps. Best attended committee meeting ever.
We are volunteers. The more input the better. We meet monthly. We want to benefit
the most people as possible.
3. Changes or additions to the agenda.
a. None
4. Comments from the public not related to the agenda.
a. None
5. Consideration of minutes from the previous meeting(s).
a. Motion by Bob to approve. Cathy seconded. Vote: All in favor. Minutes approved
6. Updates from the City - Ashley (6:45 p.m. - 10min)
a. In packet. Read through her document.
b. Bob asked about funding for Kimball culvert? Asked if Williston paying too. Ashley thinks
it will be half. Can check with Justin.
c. Bob asked about Allen Road timeline. Ashley still hoping for summer/fall. Spring seems
too early.
7. Neighborhood Schools Greenway Project Update - Nic (6:55 p.m. - 15min)\
a. Nic detailed proposal. Document in packet.
b. Cathy – Would be great to get a physical example in place to show people. Don’t wait
too long.
c. Nic asked about April Vs August
d. Cathy – Had parent pool of walking school bus to get to crossing guard. If the decision
was made to get it running, could get volunteer help for crossings.
e. Donna – Perfect way to encourage those who already are walking or biking and a way to
promote what they are doing. Tried to approach the schools last year but didn’t get far.
This could be good by having the students lead the way. A paper article highlighting
would be good. Signage is important. City would have say on what that could look like.
Signs for safe way.
f. Havaleh – Build it and promote it. Build enthusiasm and momentum. If waiting could
lose momentum and take away from it.
g. Amanda – Would we need a crossing guard for Hinesburg.
h. Nic –
i. Havaleh – What would the cost be?
j. Nic – Jonathon is looking into that.
k. Amanda – Other schools have crossing guards at certain times but also do the walking
school buses. Could have parent or community volunteer. Having those types of events
could work.
l. Shawn – Walked this route with Nic. Impressed with project. If we had a crosswalk, it
would be just stencils and signs. Remember when Kevin Dorn mentioned when we can
do effective but cheap things we should do it. Amazing service for not much money at
all. These things would help parents decide to move to SB. Will improve community
involvement and promote exercise.
m. Nic – Next steps. Connect with Patrick Burke at High School
n. Amanda – Working with State on another pop up so could find out what is useful.
8. Review of letter to the City Council on improved bike/auto/ped interaction - Shawn/All (7:30
p.m. - 15min)
a. Donna provided edits to a letter drafted by Shawn. Bob thought letter and edits was
great. Around bullet of vertical in-road pedestrian signs was good to include as another
safety measure, especially as a entrance to the city.
b. Shawn – Broke it out because we don’t see them much in SB. Wanted to make sure it
wasn’t too wordy.
c. Bob – could include with signs discussion. Putting attachment with pictures instead.
d. Nic – Agree
e. Havaleh – Like its brief. Should we vote on top 3? Painting is inexpensive and get bang
for buck.
f. Shawn – Could change order to show importance
g. Dana – That is her thought also. Putting top 3 or 4 bullets would be good.
h. Shawn – Went through bullets.
i. Nic - #1 painting and #2 speed.
j. Donna – Slowing people is good but need narrower roads.
k. Nic – Order is important. Trying to go with the ones that are cheaper.
l. Havaleh – Liked the data analysis bullet.
m. Nic – Have VTrans crash data and Local Motion commuting data.
n. Shawn – Can get crash locations, but don’t have the data on the finer points. If we need
to root cause, and try to work out why, we can help work on improvements.
o. Havaleh – Not sure police have the bandwidth to police more.
p. Shawn – Would like to talk with police chief on training of how officers are trained and
what they are looking out for more. There are dangerous locations and would hope they
were more sensitive to those spaces.
q. Dana – Used to meet regularly with Police. Should again. Crash reporting form updates
we talked about previously to capture more bike ped info was talked about previously
but may have fallen apart. Could we reach out to the Chief or designee?
r. Shawn – See the benefit of connecting with Police, Fire and EMT.
s. Ashley – Could reach out to the Police to see if they could. Once letter is finalized it
could be good to send to them and they could use it to determine who could discuss
with. Might be a good idea to give Shaun a draft or final draft so he can take a peek.
Don’t think there is anything that is going to concern him. Would be helpful before it
gets to council level.
t. Shawn – So will provide tweaks, will send to police to set up time to discuss and send to
Council at the same time.
u. Ashley – Nothing here would be too big. These are ideas for discussions. I don’t think it
would hurt to discuss with Police.
v. Shawn – could change to just “engage with Police…” to show it’s the start of a
discussion. Will move priorities around. Will finish tweaks and then will get draft to
Ashley to get to Chief Burke and City Council (Ashley to ask Kevin if it needs to be
discussed in a session or just straight to Megan).
w. Cathy asked for a copy of the finished product as could be good basis for future articles.
x. Shawn asked Ashely if we should send to Justin. Ashley thought it would be a good idea.
9. Shelburne Rd Bike Facilities/Transportation Impact Fees – All (7:10 p.m. – 20min)
a. Ashley - Committee homework was to go back and review what facilities Shelburne
Street would need and to have more information. Committee didn’t come to consensus
on what should happen on corridor.
b. Bob – Read CIP brief for project. Bike path to get to Macintosh. Did we need more to get
all the way down Shelburne Rd towards Price Chopper. Doesn’t think its got enough
money to do more.
c. Shawn – I think it should at least get to Swift St. The section over the highway is not
safe.
d. Nic – I would take Williston Rd over that highway Section of Shelburne Rd any day.
e. Donna – Taking Fayette and going through is OK. Don’t see many people trying to do it
now.
f. Nic – Would need to have a scoping study to do anything north.
g. Havaleh – Where is this mentioned?
h. Shawn – In Impact Fee Ordinance. Adjusting what is written in there.
i. Bob – The Impact Fee Ordinance has “path”. I would be satisfied that this project is just
this section.
j. Shawn – Connecting to Swift would really connect the all of the paths and lanes in that
general area.
k. Havaleh – Did a site visit in December and was almost hit from a car in a driveway.
Needs something. There are many driveways and need to be designed appropriately.
l. Amanda – Noted Envision89 project and could be a good chance for committee input
into the project. South Burlington City Council presentation if anyone was interested.
m. Shawn – Propose adjust entry to have on road bike lanes all the way to Swift St on both
sides of the road.
n. Bob – Maybe having it be a Rec Path would be safest and best. There is a sidewalk now.
o. Eric – Not a world class sidewalk. Well used. A lot more driveways on the east side than
west.
p. Nic – Does the cost change between bike lanes and sidewalk vs just rec path.
q. Ashley – Wouldn’t worry about price too much. Will need to be adjusted anyway. If
sidewalk replacement it wouldn’t be covered by Impact Fees
r. Shawn asked if we would want to keep shared use path
s. Havaleh thinks there should be a rec path on one side at least
t. Shawn – People don’t look for people on rec paths, they look at the road. Lanes
preferred. Families and people walking have more stopping ability.
u. Donna – I would vote for just bike lanes. Don’t add much when sidewalk becomes multi-
use path. Sidewalk needs replacement anyway.
v. Shawn – Can bring that back to Justin.
w. Shawn motion to change Shelburne Road project to be strictly bike lanes all way to Swift
Street on both sides of road, from end of existing bike lane to the south. Seconded by
Bob. Vote: Approved unanimously.
10. Review results from DPW quarterly review - Bob (7:45 p.m. - 10min)
a. Pushed to next meeting
11. Confirmation: Next meeting Wednesday, March 10, 2020 @ 5:30pm
a. Shawn may not attend, in Colorado. Cathy will help build agenda and run it. Shawn may
attend.
12. Update
a. Nic happy to announce we have officially applied for a Bicycle Friendly Community
designation from the League of American Bicyclists. No promises but at least the
application was finally made. Huge thanks to all who helped throughout the application
process. Started in 2019 so a relief to get it submitted.
13. Adjourn (by 8:00 p.m.)
a. Shawn moved to adjourn. Seconded by Eric. All approved. Adjourned 8:10pm